New York Giants Fans: 'Cowboys-Giants Rivalry'

Source:New York Giants Fans- head coach Tom Coughlin.

Source:The Daily Review

"Giants Chronicles explores the history of the Giants-Cowboys rivalry" 

From the New York Giants Fans

This photo was the original photo from this video about the Giants-Cowboys rivalry. But that video is currently available online right now.

Source:NFL Films- New York or New Jersey (depending on your perspective) vs Dallas.

The NFC East division is the best division in the NFL, because every team hates everyone else. Maybe only the AFC North can say that about their division. You got Giants-Eagles, Redskins-Cowboys, Redskins-Giants, Eagles-Cowboys, these are all great rivalries. The Redskins-Eagles rivalry has been very good over the years especially the last thirty years or so. 

The Giants-Cowboys rivalry even though it is a rivalry and both teams respect and get up for each other, might be the last rivalry in the NFC East. Both teams are separated by about 2000 miles. Other than this century both teams haven't been good at the same time for the most part. The Cowboys were great in the 1970s, the Giants perhaps the worst franchise of the 1970s. The Giants were good in the mid and late 1980s as the Cowboys were in decline. The Cowboys were the team of the 1990s, while the Giants were struggling to make the NFC Playoffs, for the most part.

The Giants, might have a bigger rivalry with the Chicago Bears and San Francisco 49ers over the years, if you look at all the great games they've had with both franchises. Especially the 49ers which goes back to 1981 and where they seemed to be playing each other on Monday Night Football every year in the 1980s, or in the playoffs. 

As you see in this video most of the great games that the Giants and Cowboys have played against each other has been in the last 5-10 years or so. So you might be able to say that the Giants-Cowboys rivalry has been great during this period, or is one of the best rivalries in the NFL right now. Similar to the Baltimore Ravens and Pittsburgh Steelers, or the Ravens and Cincinnati Bengals. But historically the Giants main rivals have been the Eagles and Redskins and then after that the 49ers and Bears, as far as the big games that they've played. With the Cowboys, it has been the Redskins and Eagles and then the 49ers as well.

To me at least, great NFL rivalries are historic. They survive through the years with people being able to say: "Remember that great game against them thirty years ago when we beat them for the division? Reminds me of that game last year when they beat us for the division." Just because a rivalry is hot, or sexy, or however you want to phrase it, doesn't make it a great rivalry if no one cares about it 3-5 years from now. Because both teams have moved on, or perhaps are struggling now, or just one team is struggling with other getting the better of their games. 

And yes, since both the Cowboys and Giants have been regular playoff contenders the last ten years or so and generally have both been in the NFC East race, they've played a lot of big games against each other and have done that in prime-time. But that doesn't put it in the same class as the Redskins-Cowboys, Giants-Eagles, Redskins-Giants, who go back forever against each other and have played a lot of great games against each other going back fifty-years. The Cowboys first big rival was the Redskins. Then the Eagles and then the Giants.

NFL Films: NY Giants Chronicles- The 1960s & 1970s

Source:Jim Files- a look at the 1970 New York Giants.

Source:The Daily Review

"1970 New York Giants Highlight Video" 

From Jim Files 

"New York Giants Qb Y.a. Tittle... Sports Illustrated Cover art print by Sports Illustrated. Our art prints are produced on acid-free papers using archival inks to guarantee that they last a lifetime without fading or loss of color. All art prints include a 1" white border around the image to allow for future framing and matting, if desired." 

Source:Fine Art America- New York Giants QB Y.A. Tittle.

From Fine Art America

I believe Bob Papa had the best line when he said that the New York Giants by 1964 were in transition. The great teams and success that they had in the 1950s and early 1960s was gone by 1964. 

Giants running back Alex Webster (not Barney Rubble) had a great line as well when he said in 64 that the Giants had a bunch of players who played a year too long. They were an aging team that was carrying a lot of aging veterans who were past their primes and should’ve retired after the 62 or 63 seasons and simply no longer had it in 64 and the Giants collapsed and finished in last place in 64. And guys like Y.A. Tittle, Frank Gifford and Alex Webster, all retire after the 64 season. Leaving the Giants being forced to start rebuilding in 65.

To give you an idea of how good the Giants were from 1964-80: they never made the playoffs and had I believe had two winning seasons. The worst team in the NFC East in the 1970s. Again, one winning season and year after year competing with their arch-rival the Philadelphia Eagles for last place in the NFC East. Two of the biggest markets and cities in the country and two of the most storied franchises in the NFL and yet they were consistently competing for last place in the NFC East. 

I think the problem with the Giants of this era was that they fired Allie Sherman too soon after the 68 season and then not finding a good head coach for them until Ray Perkins in 1979. They had several different head coaches during this period that all had one thing in common: losing season after losing season.

As great as Wellington Mara was for the New York Giants franchise he made a lot of mistakes in the 1960s and 70s. Not having the right general manager and head coach in the 1970s and poor drafting set this franchise way back. 

Also, not finding a replacement for Yankee Stadium which was really a baseball park that the Giants shared. (With the guess who) All of these things that contributed to the Giants essentially being asleep as a franchise especially in the 1970s. Even the Chicago Bears who were pretty bad in this period as well-managed a couple of winning seasons and made the playoffs in the 1970s. 

The Giants did make a few good draft picks in the mid and late 1970s like Harry Carson, George Martin and Phil Simms that set them up well for the 1980s. But by in-large the 1970s was a bad decade for the New York Giants.

The New York Times: Jason Tubrow: Colorful History of Kezar Stadium

Source:New York Times welcomes you to Kezar Stadium.

Source:The New Democrat

I guess from the outside looking in, Kezar Stadium was a very attractive football stadium. With pretty sight lines, in a great part of San Francisco, with a pretty field. Not much different from lets say L.A. Memorial Coliseum, or perhaps Rose Bowl Stadium, but a little more than half the size of both of those historic stadiums. But RFK Stadium in Washington, has a great field, fans are on top of the action, with good sight lines, at least for football, but it looks like underground parking lot, once you go back to the concession stands and move away from the field. Kezar Stadium, not football palace, but certainly a stadium with a lot of character.

In the 1950s, the 49ers became winners and contenders at Kezar. Y.A. Tittle, perhaps one of the top ten quarterbacks of all-time, whose in the Hall of Fame, played for the 49ers at Kezar, not Candlestick Park. He was part of the 49ers Million Dollar Backfield. Tittle, along with running backs Joe Perry, Hugh McElhenny, and John Johnson. And RC Owens, great 49ers receiver, was also part of these very good 49er teams. That never seemed to be able to top the Chicago Bears, or Colts in the Western Conference to get to the NFL Championship. Dirty Harry, with Clint Eastwood, did a scene at Kezar.

Kezar Stadium, certainly not a football palace and the 49ers in the early 1970s certainly needed a better football stadium. To have the resources to contend in the NFL in the 1970s and beyond. Kezar, was certainly not Chicago’s Soldier Field, or Green Bay’s Lambeau Field, or even Los Angeles’s Memorial Coliseum, but it was a stadium with a lot of character. It was a true football stadium and not a cookie cutter that was made for both football and baseball in the 1970s. And had San Francisco and the 49ers bothered to renovate the stadium and invest in it, maybe the 49ers are still playing there today. And the Giants, are still playing at Candlestick Park when it was beautiful.

New York Giants Chronicles: Mark Bavaro

Source:The New Democrat

When I think of great all around tight ends, I think of guys who can block first, which is the most important job of a tight end. Has good hands and catches the ball well and catches the ball well in traffic. And can run with the ball, doesn't have to be fast, but who gets open and can gain yards after the catch. Mark Bavaro had all of those skills and was great in all of those areas and then some perhaps to the point that when he was healthy, you are not only talking about the greatest tight end of the 1980s, but perhaps the greatest tight end of all-time when he was healthy and in his prime.

Today's tight ends are almost thought and only thought of as big receivers who are supposed to catch the ball, especially on third down and in the red zone. "Yeah and if he can block, great, but we are going to throw the ball forty times a game anyway. And we may just run the ball to give our quarterback's arm a little break". But there's a really important reason why the tight end lines up next to the offensive tackle. Because the TE is an extension of the offensive line and his job is to block and help the OT with double teams.

If your tight end doesn't block, you are not going to run the ball very well. Because now the defense will always have a linebacker free on the outside to stuff the run or rush the QB. And the smart defenses will lineup their best blitzing outside linebacker against the weak pass catching TE. To take advantage of that matchup, but if you do that against Mark Bavaro, you are now risking your best blitzer getting stuffed at the line of scrimmage. Because Mark Bavaro was like another offensive tackle with his ability to block.

Mark Bavaro was perfect for New York City and North Jersey and Bill Parcells. Tough blue-collar Italian guy like Bill Parcells who fit in so perfectly with that community. Not just Italian-Americans in that area, but the broader working class of the New York area. And had it not of been for his leg injuries, we are not only talking about a first ballot Hall of Famer who would already be in the Hall of Fame right now, but perhaps the greatest all around tight end of all-time. That is how great Mark Bavaro was.

ESPN: 30 For 30: Marcus Dupree, The Best That Never Was

Source:The New Democrat   

If talent and the ability to play football were the only things that people needed to be successful football players, then maybe Marcus Dupree ends up as the great running back whose ever played. Because he was 6’3 225-230 pounds of muscle, speed and vision. Sounds like Eric Dickerson right, but Eric Dickerson is in the Pro Football Hall of Fame with a college degree and is very intelligent. And not the feature in an ESPN film called the Best That Never Was. 

Maybe instead Marcus is in a film called The Best Who Ever Lived winning awards at Sundance and so-forth. Marcus Dupree unlike Eric Dickerson didn’t even finish his first year of college at Oklahoma. Not calling Marcus a dumb man, but he didn’t have the education, maturity and probably people around him to show him that "you are blowing this you are blowing a golden opportunity to be a great football player. Perhaps the greatest who ever ran the ball, why are you doing this?" 

Marcus Dupree is the perfect example of why there should be a minor league pro football system in the United States. A place to go for high school football players who’ve at least graduated from high school, but not ready at least for major college. And perhaps not college at all who do not even have any interest in attending college and wouldn’t do the work at college to be successful. 

If the NFL had that back then like baseball and hockey already have in America, Marcus plays 3-4 years of minor league football and get’s drafted in the NFL by a team that wants him. And knows how to utilize him and Marcus probably goes down as the top pick or one of the top picks in the. 1985 or 86 drafts. Never tries to play in the United States Football League and probably has a 12-13 year career in the National Football league headed to the Hall of Fame. Because Marcus wasn’t college material as a student, but someone with a great gift to play football.

The Best That Never Was is the title for a player who would’ve been the greatest running back of all time. But never lived up to that because he was a guy who went to college even though he probably shouldn’t have been in college. Because he was there to play football not be a student who needed other options post high school to be successful as a pro football player. But who didn’t have those options for him at the time.

ESPN: Sportscenter- Special On The 1985 Chicago Bears 46 Defense

Source:ESPN- Chicago Bears LB's Wilbur Marshal and Mike Singletary, in 1985.

Source:The New Democrat

"1985 Chicago Bears 46 Defense special on ESPN" 

From Ironworker Jeff 

I wouldn't call former Bears defensive coordinator Buddy Ryan the father of the the 46 Defense, but he certainly was one of the fathers. You could make a case that what former Atlanta Falcons defensive coordinator Jerry Glanville is the father of the 46 Defense. They just didn't call it that in Atlanta in the mid and late 1970s and even into the 1980s when Glanville was still coaching the Falcons defense before he moved on to Houston. In Atlanta this defense was called the Grits Blitz.

But what is the 46 Defense and why is it called that when the Bears didn't even line up four men up front and six right behind the defensive line. The Bears would line up four DL generally, two defensive ends and two defensive tackles. With Otis Wilson and Wilbur Marshal who were normally linebackers would line up next to either defensive end Dan Hampton or Richard Dent. With middle linebacker Mike Singletary covering the middle of the field almost by himself.

The 46 Defense to paraphrase Buddy Ryan was based off of a simple mathematic proposition: that if the offense lines have seven up front and they line eight up front, at least one defender will always go unblocked and free to either rush the QB or stuff the runner. Which meant the Bears on defense would generally have eight guys lined up in the box. Not all of them on the line of scrimmage. Four down front, two linebackers again right next to one of the DE's, Mike Singletary right behind the DT's and a safety right near the line of scrimmage as well.

What also made the Bears 46 special was just because they generally lined up eight guys in the box, that didn't mean eight guys were always rushing the line of scrimmage. They wanted the offense to always believe that was a possibility and have to prepare for that. Most offenses fell for that trap and played the Bears 46 conservatively and tried to keep more guys in for protection and run blocking. Leaving fewer people in the play that the QB can throw the ball to and also making it harder to run the ball. Because instead spreading the 46 out, you leave everybody in making things very crowded.

The opposite is true in how you attack the 46: you don't go conservative especially if you are a good offensive team with a good QB and passing game. You bring in extra WR's and spread the defense out, which gives you more room to operate on offense. And once you establish the passing game and can even hit a few passes deep, now you got the Bears thinking about the passing game. Which gives you room to run the football.

As I mentioned last night, the Dolphins were the only team that figured out how to attack the Bears 46 in 1985 and have the personal to do it on offense. The Redskins studied that and used their own variation of that in 86 and 87 by using maximum protection, but not to run the football, but to hit big passes down the field. And spread the Bears out as well to throw short and that is how they beat the Bears in 86 and 87 in the NFC Playoffs. As well as being good enough on defense to stop the Bears.

CBS Sports: NFL 1984- Green Bay Packers @ Chicago Bears: Fourth Quarter

Source:The New Democrat

Here’s and example of why the Bears-Packers rivalry is so great. The Packers didn’t even make the NFC Playoffs in 1984. I think they finished 8-8 under their first-year head coach Forrest Gregg. The Bears were 10-6 and got to the NFC Final where they lost to the San Francisco 49ers, who were the eventual Super Bowl champion that year. And yet the Packers come into Chicago and not only beat the Bears, but beat them in dramatic fashion at the end of the game. Costing the Bears 2nd place in the NFC and forcing them to win at least one playoff game on the road to get to the conference final.   

The Packers not only beat the Bears in Chicago, a game the Bears needed to win, but they beat them without their starting quarterback Lynn Dickey. Who was a Pro Bowl caliber quarterback for the Packers in the 1970s and 80s. And beat them with a third-string quarterback. Now of course the Bears didn’t have Jim McMahon or even Steve Fuller as their quarterback for this game. But they still had their 46 Defense and were healthy there. Playing a Packers team that didn’t have any great players on offense, other than maybe wide receiver James Lofton.

NBC Sports: Green Bay Packers & Chicago Bears: A Rivalry Through the Years

Source:The New Democrat

Similar to the Redskins-Cowboys rivalry or the Steelers-Browns rivalry or the Raiders-Broncos rivalry, the Bears-Packers rivalry is not as great as it use to be. For one thing, the Packers have dominated this rivalry really the last twenty years or so when the Packers became a regular playoff team and divisional champion, as well as Super Bowl contender and champion. The Bears have been in, well hibernation (pun intended) really since they fired Mike Ditka in 1993. And have not found that one head coach who can not only make them consistent winners again, but champions as well.

But even with the Bears lack of success on the field in the last twenty years or so, because of all the games they've won in their history, including championships and of course with all the success that they Packers have had the last twenty years and throughout their history and with all of the history between these two great franchises, you'll have a real hard time finding a better rivalry in the NFL and probably a better rivalry in pro sports in general. I mean we are talking about Michigan-Ohio State as far as all of the history, games and championships won between these two great franchises

CBS Sports: NFL 1989-Preseason Opener: Dallas Cowboys @ San Diego Chargers: Intro

Source:The New Democrat

I am not so much interested in Troy Aikman's first NFL pass, since it was in a preseason game and technically didn't count. What I am interested in is Pat Summerall's intro to this game, because he was the master of that, with his great voice, knowledge of the game, and pure intelligence. He not only could have written his own intros, but he also had a great sense of humor. Then combine him with John Madden, the greatest NFL analyst you've ever seen, and you have a Hall of Fame duo.